| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Does this sound suspicious/like money laundering? Thread poster: Stéphanie Denton (X)
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| Two more things to check | Jun 5, 2011 |
Google the "client's" address and/or phone number as well as his/her name- he or she may have a few aliases, but one main base.
Look at the full e-mail headers to get the IP adress the mail originated from. Use Whois to see where that is. Is the "client" claiming to be somewhere else?
[Regardless of the results of either of those checks, I'm 99.99% convinced this is a scam.]
| | | | | So he IS going abroad | Jun 5, 2011 |
In a similar recent thread, someone wondered why these international business trips are a common part of the scenario. My guess would be that this puts the target under added moral pressure to comply quickly. What the scammer wants is for the target to send on the excess money at once; the longer the delay, the more chance there is that the target and his/her bank will smell a rat. By saying that he is abroad on business (a perfectly plausible reason for needing a translation) and needs the mone... See more In a similar recent thread, someone wondered why these international business trips are a common part of the scenario. My guess would be that this puts the target under added moral pressure to comply quickly. What the scammer wants is for the target to send on the excess money at once; the longer the delay, the more chance there is that the target and his/her bank will smell a rat. By saying that he is abroad on business (a perfectly plausible reason for needing a translation) and needs the money to be sent to a third party ASAP otherwise the whole trip will fall through and the translation will be useless, the scammer is pressurising the target to send the money on sooner rather than later, I suppose. The target, meanwhile, ends up feeling guilty about the idea of leaving an honest businessman, who paid up front, stranded in a foreign country without an interpreter and hugely out of pocket. There's quite a lot of psychology that goes into these things!
Perhaps the most devious aspect of this scam, I think, is the fact that the target can be the one who comes under suspicion. One of the ways in which scammers evade detection is to try to pin the blame on the victim, effectively projecting their wrongdoing onto others.
I'm not sure that moving the money to another account will help; when your bank asks you to pay it back, it may look as though you were trying to squirrel the money away. If you're going to have to pay it back, it may as well be from the same account it was paid into, no?
Also, I would keep all correspondence from him (and the envelope the cheque came in, if you still have it) just in case you're asked to explain how you came by the cheque. Hopefully it won't come to that, but it's best to cover yourself as much as you can.
I'm sorry to read that you received rude comments. All this episode shows, I think, is that you don't have a devious mind - which can be seen as a good thing! After an experience like that, striking a fair balance between cynicism and trust can be difficult, but it can help to have certain "red flags" to look out for. One of mine is contradictions or inconsistencies in what people say. For example, you spotted one when the "businessman" gave you two conflicting sets of details for the interpreter. Some of my other personal red flags - and these apply to con artists in everyday life rather than just translation, where there aren't so many types of scams - would be situations where people persistently try to guilt-trip me or evoke sympathy, show an unusual degree of charm or flattery, ask to borrow significant sums of money after knowing me for only a few months or less, try to get me to lie for them, etc. When taken in isolation, none of these things necessarily means anything, but if I see several of them together, that's when I'm really on my guard!
[Edited at 2011-06-05 18:39 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Neil Coffey 
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:00
French to English
+ ...
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
Sorry Neil, but companies don't make this kind of mistakes. I think it can be established that it was 100% a scam.
OK, fair enough! I bit tricky, then, given the situation seems to be that neither the police nor the bank are apparently wanting to accept that this is fraud.
When you hand the police the criminals on a plate and they don't want to do anything, it's a bit difficult to know what to do...
| | | | Stéphanie Denton (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:00
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Hello all
Just a quick update: No further contact has been made, as far as the "client" is concerned, I'm making the WU transfer tomorrow.
I've got a meeting with the bank manager tomorrow morning, to see what to do, althought have been advised to transfer the money into another account.
I'm going to call the company who "sent" the cheque to see whatt is going on from their end. They're a reputable company and the client is also named on their website...... See more Hello all
Just a quick update: No further contact has been made, as far as the "client" is concerned, I'm making the WU transfer tomorrow.
I've got a meeting with the bank manager tomorrow morning, to see what to do, althought have been advised to transfer the money into another account.
I'm going to call the company who "sent" the cheque to see whatt is going on from their end. They're a reputable company and the client is also named on their website...
I've checked everything out from name/address/IP address and everything seems legit on that side, but it could be identity theft. Couldn't it?
Once I know more what is going on, I shall contact the "client". I'm not contacting him until I'm 100% sure of the bank's full support, and also that of the police.
I'd like to thank everyone who has offered their advice.
I'd also like to say that the people who have either sent me personal messages or left remarks deeming me stupid that this is not the case: I've had plenty of legit clients who have paid me upfront via cheque before, even when they didn't know me. I've also had people accidently over pay me before, and the money has always been returned, as it so rightly should.
It's hard to see that certain people like to undermine their peers instead of offering their full support. This is not a case of me beng stupid, but as someone rightly pointed out, I don't have a devious bone in my body, and have been taken advantage of.
I'll keep you all updated as to what happens next. ▲ Collapse
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| Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: User's request - http://www.proz.com/ticket/265676 | Stéphanie Denton (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:00
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Tomas (sorry, can't get your accent) | Jun 5, 2011 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
Stéphanie Denton wrote:
Just a quick update: No further contact has been made, as far as the "client" is concerned, I'm making the WU transfer tomorrow.
Sorry, wrong move. I sincerely hope I am mistaken about this all, but all indicates I am not.
Stéphanie Denton wrote:
Once I know more what is going on, I shall contact the "client". I'm not contacting him until I'm 100% sure of the bank's full support, and also that of the police.
The bank may fully support you, but when the check proves to be bogus... they will stop being supportive and will take the money and a long list of expenses from your account.
Stéphanie Denton wrote:
It's hard to see that certain people like to undermine their peers instead of offering their full support. This is not a case of me beng stupid, but as someone rightly pointed out, I don't have a devious bone in my body, and have been taken advantage of.
I think you should trust your colleagues here a bit more, since many of us here have had negative experiences in life which have taught us things, and we want to share our experience with you. Instead, since our opinion does not seem to fit in your picture of this matter, you say your peers are undermining you. Well, I sincerely hope the colleagues warning your about this all are wrong and you are right.
In my case I said you were naïve, and from your decision to do the Western Union transfer I still think you are being naïve about this matter. Just for the record, the Concise Oxford English Dictionary says that naïve means: "1 lacking experience, wisdom, or judgement.". I think there is a difference with the definition of "stupid": "1 lacking intelligence or common sense."
Stéphanie Denton wrote:
I'll keep you all updated as to what happens next.
Please do. It will be very helpful reading when this situation happens to other people. And good luck!
Please read my post carefully, I said as far as the client is concerned, not that I'm sending any money.
I apologise if you took my post the wrong way, I thank those who have offered their support and advice, the undermining comment was as I have received countless messages calling me stupid and even that I deserve it if I am so stupid as to fall for it.
It was in no way aimed at anyone who has supported me, and if you felt that way, I apologise sincerely.
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: User's request - http://www.proz.com/ticket/265676 |
Not stupid but perhaps about to be unwise.
Tread very carefully for your own sake.
That's all people are trying to tell you.
Find out from peers in Paris perhaps if these people are bona fide but - sorry - something smells very rotten here and not in the State of Denmark!
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| They actually do too... | Jun 5, 2011 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
[
Sorry Neil, but companies don't make this kind of mistakes. I think it can be established that it was 100% a scam. The more Stéphanie moves in this situation, especially moving the money, the worse.
I would strongly advise to keep the money in a safe place and go to the fraud branch of the police as advised by another colleague! No further action taken until those people say what should be done next and until Stéphanie has all in writing!
I got a check from a company I worked with, and they paid me about 10 times the sum they owed me. I really liked that check, and I looked at it for a while, since I've never seen such a big amount of money for an interpreting job. Obviously I did not cash the check and informed the client. Obviously it was not a scam, since they were my clients in the past, and they did not ask me to send them the difference through W.U. either
But yes, this was an exception and I would never trust anybody that is a first time client and pays me more than due. I would not cash the check. Period.
| | | | Attila Piróth
France
Local time: 10:00
Member
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Hi Stéphanie,
For the sake of argument, let's assume it is neither a scam, nor a money-laundering scheme.
Why Western Union? What is their reasoning for using WU rather than having the money sent back to their account via wire transfer (or even a check)? WU is probably much more expensive - don't they mind?
Are you perfectly sure that you won't take any accounting risk on your side? In: EUR 3000 from a reportedly registered business, out: EUR 2000 for -... See more Hi Stéphanie,
For the sake of argument, let's assume it is neither a scam, nor a money-laundering scheme.
Why Western Union? What is their reasoning for using WU rather than having the money sent back to their account via wire transfer (or even a check)? WU is probably much more expensive - don't they mind?
Are you perfectly sure that you won't take any accounting risk on your side? In: EUR 3000 from a reportedly registered business, out: EUR 2000 for - who exactly? A third person who has not sent you an invoice? Are you really 100% sure that a tax reviser cannot give you hard time when he/she asks you to justify that particular business expense?
Overpaid check + WU transfer is a common scam; even if (for the sake of argument) it is not about money laundering in this case, it can very easily draw the tax authorities' attention.
Are you ready to be worried about it? Wouldn't it be simpler to tell the client: sorry guys, I can only send it back to the same bank account it came from, otherwise I may have problems with my tax authority. If they try to be pushy, that's a huge red flag.
Best,
Attila ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Right on the money | Jun 6, 2011 |
Excellent points. This is exactly why it would have been better not to get involved in the first place. Now that it's done, consider your next steps carefully. Somebody is going to want their money back.
Attila Piróth wrote:
Hi Stéphanie,
For the sake of argument, let's assume it is neither a scam, nor a money-laundering scheme.
Why Western Union? What is their reasoning for using WU rather than having the money sent back to their account via wire transfer (or even a check)? WU is probably much more expensive - don't they mind?
Are you perfectly sure that you won't take any accounting risk on your side? In: EUR 3000 from a reportedly registered business, out: EUR 2000 for - who exactly? A third person who has not sent you an invoice? Are you really 100% sure that a tax reviser cannot give you hard time when he/she asks you to justify that particular business expense?
Overpaid check + WU transfer is a common scam; even if (for the sake of argument) it is not about money laundering in this case, it can very easily draw the tax authorities' attention.
Are you ready to be worried about it? Wouldn't it be simpler to tell the client: sorry guys, I can only send it back to the same bank account it came from, otherwise I may have problems with my tax authority. If they try to be pushy, that's a huge red flag.
Best,
Attila
| | | | Stéphanie Denton (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:00
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
If any of you have been subject to this scam recently (even just an e-mail from them, not necessarily the cheque being sent out), please contact me directly for CID's direct telephone number and the person in charge of the investigation.
I can also provide the incident number.
There has been an incident where cheque books have been stolen. It is under investigation.
Thanks
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Gina W
United States
Local time: 04:00
Member (2003)
French to English
I think what I had posted has already been covered in this thread.
[Edited at 2011-06-07 15:35 GMT]
| | | | Nadine Simone
Australia
Local time: 18:00
French to English
+ ...
| I have had the same request! | Jul 4, 2011 |
Hello,
I found your website when looking for Michael Horn.
I was contacted by email two weeks ago and given the same text (Immorality and human trafficking) to translate. I accepted but have not received any cheque yet.
I am very troubled by what I have just read on your site. I am a trusting person and never suspected foul play.
I have done 3/4 of the translation and don't know what I should do next.
You certainly made me think.
Nadine Simone
| | | | Rita Pang
Canada
Local time: 04:00
Member (2011)
Chinese to English
+ ...
MODERATOR | We understand your frustration, but... | Aug 2, 2011 |
At the same time, I think your peers are just trying to share their POV with you about the matter. You don't need to be a translator or work in the field to be scammed. A friend of mine got scammed out via WU too, for a room deposit of 300 EUR. When you are working on a project so avidly, sometimes it just wouldn't appear to you that it's a scam, right?
I have heard of cases where an extra 0 was placed on the cheque and therefore tripling the amount to be paid. In hindsight, unfortu... See more At the same time, I think your peers are just trying to share their POV with you about the matter. You don't need to be a translator or work in the field to be scammed. A friend of mine got scammed out via WU too, for a room deposit of 300 EUR. When you are working on a project so avidly, sometimes it just wouldn't appear to you that it's a scam, right?
I have heard of cases where an extra 0 was placed on the cheque and therefore tripling the amount to be paid. In hindsight, unfortunately, when you are looking at a cheque that is triple if not 5 x the amount you were paid for, questions should have been asked before you cash it in. I wouldn't worry about losing the client; you certainly are being applauded for being brave and coming forward with your experience. ▲ Collapse
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