| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Payment per hour Thread poster: Regina Grossmann
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I have a doubt about the tariff per hour. For example for a MT-PE job which is paid by hours, how many words are considered that you should proof read/edit per hour (general texts)?
| | | | | How-long-is-a-piece-of-string question | Apr 18, 2021 |
Regina Grossmann wrote:
I have a doubt about the tariff per hour. For example for a MT-PE job which is paid by hours, how many words are considered that you should proof read/edit per hour (general texts)?
Hi, Regina
It all depends on the quality of the specific MT output, wouldn't you agree?
I wouldn't touch any MTPE jobs with a (very long) bargepole myself. But of course, everybody here is free to take on whatever assignments they see fit.
However, before you agree to any MTPE jobs, take a very close look at some MTPE-related threads in the ProZ fora, e.g.
https://www.proz.com/forum/scams/348247-three_translation_agencies_contacted_us_for_mtpe_and_ht_projects_all_the_same_requirements.html
and
https://www.proz.com/forum/business_issues/350258-huge_artificial_intelligence_project_doing_the_rounds.html
as well as the other links mentioned/provided in the individual thread(s).
As for other non-MTPE assignments paid by the hour, you'll find lots of useful info in the fora using the Search forums option.
Good luck with everything, and steer clear of scams!
| | | | William Bowley
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:16
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Many variables | Apr 18, 2021 |
If you're working with agencies, they'll often have their own expectations of x words per hour, upon which you can then base your quote.
There are many variables to take into account with MTPE - the quality of the original MT, the nature/content of the file, flexibility/requirements of the client, amongst various others, so it's not a simple case of "Quote x per hour".
I'd say 750/hour is quite easily manageable for higher quality MT, but each to their own. Your own exp... See more If you're working with agencies, they'll often have their own expectations of x words per hour, upon which you can then base your quote.
There are many variables to take into account with MTPE - the quality of the original MT, the nature/content of the file, flexibility/requirements of the client, amongst various others, so it's not a simple case of "Quote x per hour".
I'd say 750/hour is quite easily manageable for higher quality MT, but each to their own. Your own experience, quality and speed will also have an effect.
[Edited at 2021-04-18 17:56 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Gerard de Noord 
France
Local time: 10:16
Member (2003)
English to Dutch
+ ...
When you're being paid per hour, you set the pace and you invoice per hour.
When you're being paid per hour and your client tells you how many units you have to churn per hour, you're not being paid per hour, you're being paid per unit.
Cheers,
Gerard
[Edited at 2021-04-18 18:30 GMT]
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Adieu
Ukrainian to English
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| Probably not how they do it | Apr 18, 2021 |
Hourly is often a variation on the word rate. Sometimes they actually ask you.
Imho 800 words / hr is a realistic speed on halfdecent MTPE. So just convert your rates using a number in that vicinity.
Sometimes goes faster, but don't tell em that.
[Edited at 2021-04-18 18:35 GMT]
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 10:16
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Regina Grossmann wrote:
For example, for a MT-PE job which is paid by hours, how many words are considered that you should proof read/edit per hour (general texts)?
In my experience, general texts typically take longer to MTPE than technical texts (this is for a variety of reasons: technical texts are often written in a predicable way, or are written specifically with publication or even translation in mind, or deal with topics that the translator knows more about).
How many words you can do depend on your language combination, the quality of the source text, the quality of the machine translation, the field of study, the sentence length, and in particular how familiar you are with that particular machine translation system's output. Generally, MTPE should be faster than normal translation, but it can also be slower.
If you're looking for a quick answer, and you don't want to ask the client for his opinion, then I'd say that you should MTPE about 20-30% more words per hour than you would normally translate per hour. Do you know how many words you typically translate in an hour? (Some translators in specific fields or with specific types of texts may be able to do 100% or even 200% more words per hour than they would normally be able to translate in an hour, but 20-30% more words is a safer assumption.)
(Note that, as others have said, some clients tell you that they pay an hourly rate but they really do expect a certain number of words per hour from you -- in which case the term "hourly" really means "unit of X number of words" -- and so you should ask the client what his expectations are.)
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 04:16
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| So you guys are advocating for MTPE， | Apr 19, 2021 |
Huh？
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jyuan_us wrote:
Huh？
not!
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jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 04:16
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| But it seems | Apr 19, 2021 |
Barbara Carrara wrote:
jyuan_us wrote:
Huh？
not!
at least half of the respondents in this thread were telling us they have a higher output per unit of time when they do MTPE than translating...
[Edited at 2021-04-19 18:22 GMT]
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 10:16
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
jyuan_us wrote:
Huh？
I don't think a lot of translators will 'advocate' for MTPE, but the truth is it's an inevitable evolution. It's not always the case, but often the quality of MTPE output is scarily good. When the subject lends itself to MTPE (not every text is suitable for MTPE) I am able to post-edit 700 - 900 words per hour (I consider 700 words to be the profitable minimum).
Luckily there is still a lot of 'normal' translation work out there, but I would advise every translator to get started with MTPE and the sooner, the better. There is no doubt it will be increasingly used.
[Edited at 2021-04-20 09:31 GMT]
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Increased widespread use of MTPE = Increased shrinkage of the human translation market.
We all see what's happening. So, why would we deliberately want to contribute to the demise of our category?
Far from me to criticize other professionals' choices, but how can the thought of being (eventually) replaced by AI not worry you? It certainly does worry me. That's why I see MTPE as an 'evitable evil', and I'll keep steering right clear of MTPE assignments, as I don't want a... See more Increased widespread use of MTPE = Increased shrinkage of the human translation market.
We all see what's happening. So, why would we deliberately want to contribute to the demise of our category?
Far from me to criticize other professionals' choices, but how can the thought of being (eventually) replaced by AI not worry you? It certainly does worry me. That's why I see MTPE as an 'evitable evil', and I'll keep steering right clear of MTPE assignments, as I don't want any part in improving them.
Call it my teensy weensy part in the talent-vs-technology war. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 10:16
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
jyuan_us wrote:
So you guys are advocating for MTPE, huh?
The fact that we answer questions relating to MTPE does not mean we think that MTPE is a good thing. Well, I personally have no problem with MTPE per se. The problem is with the implementation of it. A good client paying good rates and having good expectations w.r.t. MTPE is a good thing.
Additionally, the fact that we acknowledge that we can produce more work in an hour using MTPE than using translation doesn't mean we think MTPE is better than translation. It is simply a faster way to achieve an adequate end-product. Does MTPE represent a threat to translation? Absolutely.
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Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 10:16
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
| Yes but no, but yes but no ... :-) | Apr 20, 2021 |
Barbara Carrara wrote:
We all see what's happening. So, why would we deliberately want to contribute to the demise of our category?
"If you can't beat them, join them." I am convinced you can't stop technological development. It's a question of mere commercial logic: MTPE is (in quite a lot of situations) a lot faster without loss of quality (or almost, anyway). So in my opinion it's naive to think this evolution can be stopped. From my point of view it's about self preservation. I want to be ready when there will be a time 'normal' translations will be strongly reduced. MTPE is also something you have to learn. In the beginning you are way too slow, but after a while you begin to understand how it works and how you can speed things up considerably.
Barbara Carrara wrote:
Far from me to criticize other professionals' choices, but how can the thought of being (eventually) replaced by AI not worry you?
Oh, but it does worry me. But the thing is MTPE is not really AI. It's largely based on an immense 'translation memory', called the internet, with its millions of multilingual documents. MTPE memories can't think for themselves. They can only reproduce what they are given beforehand. And yes, there are algorithms to find connections between all those different translations to make them better, so those memories are 'learning' indeed, but they will never be able to reach human quality consistently.
That will only happen the day computers can think for themselves as human beings can. Then our profession will be gone. Together with probably almost all other professions. 
| | | | William Bowley
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:16
Spanish to English
+ ...
The points brought up about assisting AI as a negative of MTPE overlook the following flaws with that stance:
- While you may be 'helping' the AI through MTPE, every single job ("real" translation, etc.) you complete for a (competent) translation agency contributes to a similar improvement of their translation systems, through your work featuring in TMs, templates, glossaries, and so on. Thinking otherwise shows naivety in relation to how these companies work.
- As some... See more The points brought up about assisting AI as a negative of MTPE overlook the following flaws with that stance:
- While you may be 'helping' the AI through MTPE, every single job ("real" translation, etc.) you complete for a (competent) translation agency contributes to a similar improvement of their translation systems, through your work featuring in TMs, templates, glossaries, and so on. Thinking otherwise shows naivety in relation to how these companies work.
- As some mention, MTPE is very useful on certain types of simpler files. Rather than the mere use of MTPE, it's the relentless extension of its use to all sorts of jobs, cheapening highly specialist files for example, which is the real problem for all (the client in terms of the quality, the translator in terms of the rate).
FTR, I am not a fan of MTPE, however it has its uses and positives, as well as negatives, if you approach it smartly.
[Edited at 2021-04-20 12:17 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Lieven Malaise wrote:
Yes but no, but yes but no ... 
That's a title to treasure, so thanks for the (many) memories...
Lieven Malaise wrote:
"If you can't beat them, join them." I am convinced you can't stop technological development. It's a question of mere commercial logic: MTPE is (in quite a lot of situations) a lot faster without loss of quality (or almost, anyway). So in my opinion it's naive to think this evolution can be stopped.
That's the thing, I have no desire to 'join them', irrespective of all the commercial logic and endless examples of all the positives that are to be found in MTPE you throw at me. Call me naive - oh, you did! - but that's how I feel about MTPE evolution.
Lieven Malaise wrote:
MTPE is also something you have to learn.
No, it isn't.
Lieven Malaise wrote:
,,,those memories are 'learning' indeed, but they will never be able to reach human quality consistently. That will only happen the day computers can think for themselves as human beings can.
I totally subscribe to the above. Which kind of proves my point.
Lieven Malaise wrote:
Then our profession will be gone. Together with probably almost all other professions.
Thank dog (not a typo), I won't be here when that happens.
So, let's toast to that and to many, many more years of excellent human translations.
Cheers, everyone!
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