| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | How soon to chase a late payer Thread poster: Paul Dixon
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Paul Dixon 
Brazil
Local time: 05:19
Portuguese to English
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In memoriam
I was due to receive a payment on 20 November but no luck as yet. As the situation here is very very bad as far as finance goes, I wonder what is the best way to handle this. I have written (e-mailed) them twice but no reply. Can't afford a lawyer or anything like that.
Their BB rating is 4.8 but this does not say much as I do not have access to the comments.
The agency is based in London and I live in Brazil, which makes chasing them personally quite difficult and costly.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:19
Member (2008)
Italian to English
My method: wait until the agreed deadline for payment has passed. If there is no agreed deadline, wait for the statutory European waiting period of 2 months.
Then write with a very noticeably polite tone, reminding them that they should have paid by now.
Wait for another week, then write another extremely polite message, again reminding them.
Wait for another week, and then write another extremely polite message, marked "FINAL REMINDER" advising them that u... See more My method: wait until the agreed deadline for payment has passed. If there is no agreed deadline, wait for the statutory European waiting period of 2 months.
Then write with a very noticeably polite tone, reminding them that they should have paid by now.
Wait for another week, then write another extremely polite message, again reminding them.
Wait for another week, and then write another extremely polite message, marked "FINAL REMINDER" advising them that unless you receive payment in full, into your bank account, within (say) 5 **calendar** days, other action may follow without further notice, and that the correspondence is now terminated.
Do NOT specify what that action might be and if they respond with some sort of excuse, or for any other reason do NOT REPLY.
If after the X calendar days they have not paid - get back to me.
But they will pay if you do exactly as I suggest -unless your previous emails have already compromised the situation, in which case my method will not work.
My method consists of gently, politely, and very firmly leading the non-payer by the hand to a place where they themselves can see what might happen if they don't pay. Leave it up to their imagination to think about what that might be.
Over the past 15 or so years of my career as a translator there have been about 10 attempts to not pay me. None of them have succeeded - yet.
[Edited at 2020-12-08 19:01 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 09:19
Member (2007)
English
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| Follow Tom's advice | Dec 8, 2020 |
I would do the same as Tom.
I'd send the final demand on paper, by registered mail. You'll need to allow extra time for them to take delivery, of course, before you can expect payment, but you will have proof that they knew of the debt.
On that point, at the moment there's a slight chance that the email address you're using has a problem. Is there a way you can contact them differently? Phone, skype, a different email, their ProZ.com profile... I like to close the loo... See more I would do the same as Tom.
I'd send the final demand on paper, by registered mail. You'll need to allow extra time for them to take delivery, of course, before you can expect payment, but you will have proof that they knew of the debt.
On that point, at the moment there's a slight chance that the email address you're using has a problem. Is there a way you can contact them differently? Phone, skype, a different email, their ProZ.com profile... I like to close the loopholes that would let them pretend it was all an honest mistake. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Paul Dixon
Brazil
Local time: 05:19
Portuguese to English
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TOPIC STARTER In memoriam
Sheila: What do you mean by 'your e-mail could have a problem'? Please explain.
There was one PM who said she was not receiving my e-mails and so we corresponded through Whatsapp. She later opened a gmail account for our conversations, and the e-mails then arrived.
Could this be the problem?
I liked the registered mail idea. I'll do that despite the high cost.
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Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 09:19
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Email addresses can have problems | Dec 8, 2020 |
I was referring more to their end but it's also possible for there to be problems at your end. It just seems to me to be better to try another avenue of contact, just in case. I recently had a client ignore everything until I sent the third reminder email to a different address too, and then they magically answered -- I don't know why that was, but I ended up getting my money.
| | | | | Hold your horses | Dec 8, 2020 |
If you sent an invoice around 20 October, thinking it’d be paid on 20 November, maybe it went in with all their October invoices, with payment then planned around the end of November, and then it’s got to reach Brazil and clear. So it’s not that late yet even without Covid or other illness or other staff problem or delay, or the fact that it’s still fairly standard for UK companies to pay a few days late.
So I’d simply give them a ring and ask at this stage.
(... See more If you sent an invoice around 20 October, thinking it’d be paid on 20 November, maybe it went in with all their October invoices, with payment then planned around the end of November, and then it’s got to reach Brazil and clear. So it’s not that late yet even without Covid or other illness or other staff problem or delay, or the fact that it’s still fairly standard for UK companies to pay a few days late.
So I’d simply give them a ring and ask at this stage.
(Oh, and Paul, Barbara’s still waiting for an update about whether you got that book...)
[Edited at 2020-12-08 22:43 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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I agree with Chris and I wouldn't wait 2 months to send them a somewhat formal notice. I mean I would chase them long before that especially if there might have been communication problems as might seem to be the case here. See if they have a website and how you can contact them. Maybe a Chat area or online form or phone number? I would exhaust those avenues first before sending them a formal or final reminder. Send the the invoice every so many days, keep chasing them. I somehow don't like usin... See more I agree with Chris and I wouldn't wait 2 months to send them a somewhat formal notice. I mean I would chase them long before that especially if there might have been communication problems as might seem to be the case here. See if they have a website and how you can contact them. Maybe a Chat area or online form or phone number? I would exhaust those avenues first before sending them a formal or final reminder. Send the the invoice every so many days, keep chasing them. I somehow don't like using WhatsApp for jobs. Do make a BB entry if you suspect they are prolonging or withholding payment. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:19
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| If people don't pay | Dec 9, 2020 |
If people don't pay it's never a good idea to give them the idea that you're going to indulge them if they come up with excuses about email addresses that don't work, Covid, etc. That is never the right approach. They have already been taking advantage of you (by not paying) and any sign of emollience on your part will be construed by them as another reason to delay payment - or to not pay. Whatever problems you *imagine* they might have, they are not *your* problems and you shouldn't get invol... See more If people don't pay it's never a good idea to give them the idea that you're going to indulge them if they come up with excuses about email addresses that don't work, Covid, etc. That is never the right approach. They have already been taking advantage of you (by not paying) and any sign of emollience on your part will be construed by them as another reason to delay payment - or to not pay. Whatever problems you *imagine* they might have, they are not *your* problems and you shouldn't get involved in them. If somebody doesn't pay you when they should, the only way to get paid is to play hardball.
In this particular case, Paul, it seems, alas, that the waters have already become very muddied and threaten to become even muddier. Just GET PAID.
[Edited at 2020-12-09 08:10 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| Stick to your usual practices | Dec 9, 2020 |
As you seem to prefer not to act as your client's banker, something which I do not do either, use normal procedures:
- a reminder by mail with acknowledgement of receipt
- send a copy of your reminder by fax, if the client has one
- remind your client that the work cannot be used until it has been paid for
I know that is not the way it works in real business life, but in many jurisdictions, it is actually the case.
A registered post paper copy would be a good... See more As you seem to prefer not to act as your client's banker, something which I do not do either, use normal procedures:
- a reminder by mail with acknowledgement of receipt
- send a copy of your reminder by fax, if the client has one
- remind your client that the work cannot be used until it has been paid for
I know that is not the way it works in real business life, but in many jurisdictions, it is actually the case.
A registered post paper copy would be a good idea and is generally not that expensive.
With the reminder, bear in mind what terms you agreed and make sure that they were perfectly clear.
Refer to whatever that agreement provided in terms of late payment.
Put a time limit on what you expect in return :
- indicate a time limit for payment by the means agreed (for example, payment within 7 days of the mail)
- if you have no reply within that time limit, then make a telephone call and/or repeat the process, this time indicating that you will be taking legal advice
- I know you don't want to take legal advice, but that may be enough to get a reaction within a couple of business days
- thereafter, and even now, why not check what means of recovering the monies due, some of which may even be free of charge.
Good luck.
It is usually worth having a standard plan in mind so that you can kick into action as soon as payment is late. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:19
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote:
It is usually worth having a standard plan in mind so that you can kick into action as soon as payment is late.
I strongly agree, because this will happen again. However I don't think such a plan can be standardised. There can be a basic set of steps to go through (I have set out my own in a previous post) but from one case to another there will be particular nuances to apply, and other steps that might be appropriate in some cases but not in others.
There is, however, one fundamental driving factor that I don't think should ever change: a cold, dispassionate determination to get paid, no matter how small the sum may be.
[Edited at 2020-12-09 15:37 GMT]
| | | | | Within reason | Dec 9, 2020 |
Tom in London wrote:
There is, however, one fundamental driving factor that I don't think should ever change: a cold, dispassionate determination to get paid, no matter how small the sum may be.
But all within reason, surely?
My one bad debt in 28 years, a whopping £35, was hardly worth chasing even with luke-warm determination (and has been greatly outweighed by various overpayments received and never claimed back over the years).
That track record doesn't really warrant preparation of a 30-page action plan for the future...
Although I understand the situation is really bad in Brazil.
The best way is to pick your clients carefully. Banks good, startups bad, real people worse.
And don't go in all-guns-blazing straight away. Talk to them first. There are all kinds of genuine reasons why someone might not pay on time. Even central banks have been known to forget to make a payment occasionally. Trust me.
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 10:19
Spanish to English
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| How soon to chase a late answerer? | Dec 9, 2020 |
Like Chris said.
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Tina Vonhof (X)
Canada
Local time: 02:19
Dutch to English
+ ...
| Payment terms | Dec 9, 2020 |
Chris S wrote:
If you sent an invoice around 20 October, thinking it’d be paid on 20 November, maybe it went in with all their October invoices, with payment then planned around the end of November, and then it’s got to reach Brazil and clear. So it’s not that late yet even without Covid or other illness or other staff problem or delay, or the fact that it’s still fairly standard for UK companies to pay a few days late.
So I’d simply give them a ring and ask at this stage.
(Oh, and Paul, Barbara’s still waiting for an update about whether you got that book...)
[Edited at 2020-12-08 22:43 GMT]
And then again, many agencies would pay your invoice of 20 November at the end of December. So I would wait at least till mid-January to allow time for the payment to reach your bank before you start sending the 'extremely polite' emails Tom suggests. The best thing to do is to ask for the agency's payment terms at the time you accept the job.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:19
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Clarification | Dec 9, 2020 |
Tina Vonhof wrote:
..... I would wait at least till mid-January to allow time for the payment to reach your bank before you start sending the 'extremely polite' emails Tom suggests.
To clarify what I mean by "extremely polite": I mean using the kind of language that might make the non-payer worry that a lawyer is standing at your shoulder; writing an email that could well become evidence in a court of law. Maybe I meant "extremely formal":
[Edited at 2020-12-09 16:25 GMT]
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 10:19
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Paul Dixon wrote:
I was due to receive a payment on 20 November...
Can you explain to us how do you know that?
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