| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | 700 word test - what do you think about it? Thread poster: Nick Golensky
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Ashutosh Mitra 
India
Local time: 11:55
Member (2011)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | very rightly said............. | Mar 12, 2011 |
Nick Golensky wrote:
even 100 word test (carefully chosen) speaks a lot about your practical skills, which I am not against of doing. But it will anyway never check your efficiency at tough deadlines/large volumes. And a test maybe be done just by another person, like I can ask or hire a pro for this biz to do it for me just to receive a huge job from a client (like many agencies do, in fact).
Well, there are so many other ways to check one's qualification, like references, sample translations, translations on the net, certifications, accreditations, memberships... ProZ.com itself offers a huge number of such options for decent employers. I wonder why don't they bother to use them? Or are only translators who work in the industry and do their best?
Gladly, nobody says 700 word tests are awesome, I am fond of them, give me more.
[Редактировалось 2011-03-12 07:11 GMT]
| | | | Lauren Butler (X)
Local time: 07:25
Russian to English
+ ...
| establish a standard for yourself | Mar 12, 2011 |
clients, who are often simply human beings.
LOL. As far as we know.
Seriously, though, a client requesting a five-page "test sample" is clearly a scammer. 700 words? Eh, maybe they're a scammer; maybe they're just new to the business and don't know any better.
I personally think doing a 250-word sample translation for a potential new client is reasonable. Your mileage may vary. If a client sends something longer and requests a free sample, I translate the first 250-300 words and explain my policy. So far everyone's been fine with that.
| | | | | Stick to your guns.... | Mar 12, 2011 |
Nick Golensky wrote:
Recently I have met 2 agencies, which suggested me doing 700 word test 'to check my proficiency'. After I refused and told some ideas what I think about them one of them suggested that if I hadn't been that aggressive they would have offered me some payment for this task, but nothing of such kind had been said to me before I explained myself. The other just wrote that they dismissed my application after my answer. Well, no comments.
Well, you might understand my attitude towards such free of charge tasks, and what are your opinions? I personally would need about 3 hours to complete such tasks, which will cost me 60 EUR (20 EUR per hour + email communication + research on the net + multiple proofreading + some possible consultation with pros). What do you think about such 'small presents' for our 'great agencies'?
I know that this was discussed millions of times, but I just can't help wondering regarding such disrespectful attitudes towards translators.
Unprofessional agencies should get bored looking for professional translators until they change to a professional attitude or disappear from the market.
Serious companies send you a slightly extensive, but full paid translation to do. If they think you are what they are looking for, they will call you back. If not, they will forget you. Our time (time is money...) is the only thing that we really own. Therefore, I think that there does not exist any valid motive for giving it away, unless we take consciously such decision.
[Edited at 2011-03-12 15:05 GMT]
| | | | Radosveta Golden
United States
Local time: 02:25
Member (2010)
English to Bulgarian
+ ...
| Come on! 700 words? A test? | Mar 12, 2011 |
This is more like a smaller size job, as you've already mentioned. Up to 200 words will be within the normal range for a test, even if the terminology level is "a letter to grandma", which I guess it isn't. I don't think you should fret on the fact that you've lost them, although you probably didn't necessarily need to be harsh with them (hm, sincerely, I think I was on the rude side a few times myself, but after a longer term harassment). A professional and reliable company would state their co... See more This is more like a smaller size job, as you've already mentioned. Up to 200 words will be within the normal range for a test, even if the terminology level is "a letter to grandma", which I guess it isn't. I don't think you should fret on the fact that you've lost them, although you probably didn't necessarily need to be harsh with them (hm, sincerely, I think I was on the rude side a few times myself, but after a longer term harassment). A professional and reliable company would state their conditions about the test in the first e-mail, i.e. "We require a completion of a 700 words paid test. We will compensate you ... for the test" or something to that matter. What happened in this case sounds to me like a scenario from the farmers market - I would have paid you, if you hadn't dissed me in this rude manner. "Shoulda Woulda Coulda" doesn't sound like someone I personally wish to work for.
A colleague here mentioned that these unprofessional companies will eventually disappear. Well, I am sceptical about it. Unfortunately, not only that they don't disappear, they tend to grow like mushrooms (that's a better way to put it, than just to say like fungus:) ). They just work their way through, using the labour of very low paid, very low quality translators behind the claim "professional"and "credentials". I've seen translation works demonstaring worse language skills than my 10 year old niece out there. This undoubtedly pressures professional translators and corrupts the standards. ▲ Collapse
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I hope your response wasn't something like "You suck! I ain't doing no stinkin' test!" You gain nothing by being rude to the PMs. Next time just respond that you would either like to be paid for the 700 word test, or you'll do a test of up to 250 words for free. Their response will determine whether you want to be working for them at all or not.
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule | Tina Vonhof (X)
Canada
Local time: 00:25
Dutch to English
+ ...
| Other approaches | Mar 12, 2011 |
I agree with Samuel: if you, as you say, responded 'aggressively' to these clients and 'told them what you thought of them', it is no wonder that you lost them. I generally don't do test translations either but I can also understand the client's reasons for asking, especially if it concerns a text in a very specialized area or for a particularly valued and/or demanding end client. In a case like that I might be willing to negotiate.
You could have explained to them politely that: ... See more I agree with Samuel: if you, as you say, responded 'aggressively' to these clients and 'told them what you thought of them', it is no wonder that you lost them. I generally don't do test translations either but I can also understand the client's reasons for asking, especially if it concerns a text in a very specialized area or for a particularly valued and/or demanding end client. In a case like that I might be willing to negotiate.
You could have explained to them politely that:
1) you do not do test translations at all, and/or
2) referred them to sample translations or references in your Proz profile, or
3) that you will do only xxx words for free or at a reduced rate, or
4) that you would want to be paid your regular rate for the test but would deduct that amount from the cost of the entire job, as someone else suggested above. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | 700 word test - what do you think about it? | Mar 12, 2011 |
Tina Vonhof wrote:
I agree with Samuel: if you, as you say, responded 'aggressively' to these clients and 'told them what you thought of them', it is no wonder that you lost them. I generally don't do test translations either but I can also understand the client's reasons for asking, especially if it concerns a text in a very specialized area or for a particularly valued and/or demanding end client. In a case like that I might be willing to negotiate.
You could have explained to them politely that:
1) you do not do test translations at all, and/or
2) referred them to sample translations or references in your Proz profile, or
3) that you will do only xxx words for free or at a reduced rate, or
4) that you would want to be paid your regular rate for the test but would deduct that amount from the cost of the entire job, as someone else suggested above.
What you say above is of common sense. Nevertheless, the remaining question is:
Is it worthy to work for such agencies or to accept such translation tests? Imho, no way.
Sample translations may match or not the text to be translated. But, exactly the same can be said about translation tests. What really makes sense to me, is that the agency sends you a sligthly part of the full job to be done «in order to be able to assess your ability for that particular job» and to pay it to you, as it is a part of the full the job to be done.
In any case, and no matter how involved the job is, 700 words seems excessive.
[Edited at 2011-03-12 21:22 GMT]
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Nikita Kobrin
Lithuania
Local time: 09:25
Member (2010)
English to Russian
+ ...
| Now I know thе answer | Mar 12, 2011 |
Jabberwock wrote:
I treat tests as an investment
I treat free tests as waste. In 90% of the cases I refuse to accept them.
I want to tell you a recent story on the topic...
Several months ago a company offered me to do a free test (I get such offers almost daily). I politely refused sending them my usual formula:
Unfortunately I don't have time to perform free tests. Besides I believe there's no much need to do that for a professional linguist with an MA in Translation, 15 years of practical work in the translation industry and all-excellent customers' feedback, etc.
No matter I didn't accept the test a week later they sent me a small paid job. I did it. Since that time they have been sending me jobs almost every week and have become one of my regular customers.
But that is not the end of the story. Two weeks ago they offered me a new kind of job: helping them to evaluate tests other translators do for them. So now I also do that.
I often heard the question: 'Who checks our tests?' Now I know thе answer:
Test translations are checked by those who refuse to take tests...
NK
| | | | Radosveta Golden
United States
Local time: 02:25
Member (2010)
English to Bulgarian
+ ...
| Well, kinda... | Mar 12, 2011 |
Nikita Kobrin wrote:
I often heard the question: 'Who checks our tests?' Now I know thе answer:
Test translations are checked by those who refuse to take tests...
NK
Hahaha, I check tests too, but I've done a few tests myself:) However, I might breach the copyright and quote your regular test resonse next time. It sounds quite reasonable to me:)
[Edited at 2011-03-12 21:55 GMT]
| | | | Nikita Kobrin
Lithuania
Local time: 09:25
Member (2010)
English to Russian
+ ...
| veratek
Brazil
Local time: 03:25
Portuguese to English
+ ...
| not much to get worked up about | Mar 12, 2011 |
I agree with previous commenters who said you could have informed what you wanted in a professional, clear way. I don't have much experience with agencies or tests, but I just looked up what I remembered was a "big" test I had done in the past to see how many words: 450, non-paid. It turned out to be a very professional and nice agency to work with. I have no idea how many dishonest agencies are out there which would justify an immediate suspicion of foul play regarding every request to do a lo... See more I agree with previous commenters who said you could have informed what you wanted in a professional, clear way. I don't have much experience with agencies or tests, but I just looked up what I remembered was a "big" test I had done in the past to see how many words: 450, non-paid. It turned out to be a very professional and nice agency to work with. I have no idea how many dishonest agencies are out there which would justify an immediate suspicion of foul play regarding every request to do a longer test. I guess the profile and reputation of the agency would come into play in my evaluation of their request as well.
700 is a small job and I think it should be paid. When I had to give out longer tests, this is what I did. I took out a chunk of the text to be translated, as a paid test. The idea was if the translator passed the test, that would already be an initial part of the job. Of course, this can only work when you are already targeting a translator with a particular project, not general selection procedures. And you believe the translator will do pretty well on the test. On the other hand, I've seen several short tests (200-300 words) on ProZ job ads where I think the text excerpt was very wisely chosen, ensuring a reasonable degree of effectiveness as a testing instrument. ▲ Collapse
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Nikita Kobrin
Lithuania
Local time: 09:25
Member (2010)
English to Russian
+ ...
| 450 words for free can't be called 'professional' | Mar 12, 2011 |
veratek wrote:
I just looked up what I remembered was a "big" test I had done in the past to see how many words: 450, non-paid. It turned out to be a very professional and nice agency to work with.
Dear Veratek,
I do understand that for some reason you like to work with the agency you are telling us. It's a matter of your personal preference but an agency that offers translators to make 450 words for free can't be called 'professional'. It can't be called professional at least because they don't value time and efforts of their colleagues that do tests for them.
The agency for which I check tests now is really professional. Their test is 167 words. Believe me, that's more than enough...
NK
| | | | veratek
Brazil
Local time: 03:25
Portuguese to English
+ ...
| I think it greatly depends | Mar 12, 2011 |
Nikita Kobrin wrote:
veratek wrote:
I just looked up what I remembered was a "big" test I had done in the past to see how many words: 450, non-paid. It turned out to be a very professional and nice agency to work with.
Dear Veratek,
I do understand that for some reason you like to work with the agency you are telling us.
NK
Not for "some" reason, every single reason (well, they could always pay twice what they do now, but... we would need 90% of available translators to retire before that happens  ). I think they work in a professional way in every aspect of the outsourcing process. If every agency worked like this, we would never have a problem with agencies. The only thing they could improve on was in returning me a copy of the final proofed documents, because I would learn much faster from my mistakes or concerning ways to improve how I translate certain terms. This way I don't know what gets changed or corrected. From my perspective, this would not only benefit me personally, but the agency as well. Obviously, the better I translate, the less they need to proofread. I guess however they have their established ways of working, so, given that they do work in very nice ways, all is well with me.
It's a matter of your personal preference but an agency that offers translators to make 450 words for free can't be called 'professional'. It can't be called professional at least because they don't value time and efforts of their colleagues that do tests for them.
The agency for which I check tests now is really professional. Their test is 167 words. Believe me, that's more than enough...
I guess it all depends on what criteria you're thinking of associated to the word "professional." I am not an insider to the agency, so I can't say why this test, nor why these many words. But they were certainly not out to do anything shifty. I was happy to show them I had the proper knowledge to do this particular technical translation test. It's a risk and it's an investment. For me, there isn't such a set-in-stone number of words that makes one test professional and another one unprofessional. It all depends, and it's also a question of what you are looking for in terms of work.
[Edited at 2011-03-13 09:00 GMT]
[Edited at 2011-03-13 09:01 GMT]
| | | | Amy Duncan (X)
Brazil
Local time: 03:25
Portuguese to English
+ ...
| Aliens among us? | Mar 13, 2011 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
The fact that you have a strong opinion (or an attitude) towards such tasks doesn't mean you should act with such an attitude towards clients, who are often simply human beings.
And what are they when they're not simply human beings?
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