| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Off topic: François Rollande, or Françoise Hollande? Thread poster: Tom in London
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I suppose Mr Marr thinks he's being ultra-French by illiding the "s" at the end of "François" with the "o" of Hollande, the "H" being unpronounced - or perhaps he's just following the trend or doesn't care.
While we're on the subject of British mispronunciations of foreign names and places, why are the Brtitish so determined to mispronounce the name of that Spanish island they love so dearly, Tenerife? It's always called "tenner-reef" here, whereas it should be pronounced Te-ne-RI-fay, if... See more I suppose Mr Marr thinks he's being ultra-French by illiding the "s" at the end of "François" with the "o" of Hollande, the "H" being unpronounced - or perhaps he's just following the trend or doesn't care.
While we're on the subject of British mispronunciations of foreign names and places, why are the Brtitish so determined to mispronounce the name of that Spanish island they love so dearly, Tenerife? It's always called "tenner-reef" here, whereas it should be pronounced Te-ne-RI-fay, if you see what I mean (along the same lines as the popular mispronunciation of the Italian island of Capri, pointed out by Nicole.
J ▲ Collapse
| | | | veratek
Brazil
Local time: 17:33
Portuguese to English
+ ...
| it's always a question of degree | May 6, 2012 |
Words in other languages are almost always mispronounced, it's mostly just a question of degree. A rather natural appropriation and adaptation of the original pronunciation is necessary to make the foreign word fit into the speaker's language. Not that it's a choice, really, most people cannot pronounce words like a native in other languages even when they try.
Anyways, I guess this was a missed opportunity to say Franssoy Hollahnd.
I would have liked to see that!
... See more Words in other languages are almost always mispronounced, it's mostly just a question of degree. A rather natural appropriation and adaptation of the original pronunciation is necessary to make the foreign word fit into the speaker's language. Not that it's a choice, really, most people cannot pronounce words like a native in other languages even when they try.
Anyways, I guess this was a missed opportunity to say Franssoy Hollahnd.
I would have liked to see that!
If Suhn Cloo can quite easily become Saint Cloud, there is no reason not to have Franssoy for François.
And it gives us an extra reason to smile. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ty Kendall 
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:33
Hebrew to English
I saw that too. I must admit it did make me smirk.
The French woman he was talking to didn't bat an eyelid though...and she simply referred to him as "Hollande"....I suppose that's one way of avoiding the issue.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:33
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER | I blame Gracie Fields | May 6, 2012 |
Jenny Forbes wrote:
...along the same lines as the popular mispronunciation of the Italian island of Capri, pointed out by Nicole.
J
When I was very, very small there was an ex-famous music hall singer called Gracie Fields who had gone to end her days on Capri and had made a record on which she sang about "the beautiful isle of Capreeeeee". I can remember hearing this (unmemorable) record.
I blame her. Then we also had the Ford Capreeeeee.
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:33
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Ty Kendall wrote:
The French woman he was talking to didn't bat an eyelid though.
Question d'élégance (hers, not his)
[Edited at 2012-05-06 12:32 GMT]
| | | | David Wright
Austria
Local time: 22:33
German to English
+ ...
Nope, it's tenereef in English and tene-RIF-ay in Spanish. Just like Venice in English, Venezia in Italian, Vienna in English, Wien in German or Paris and Paris pronounced differently in E and F, and so on. Don't really see the problem.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:33
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
David Wright wrote:
Nope, it's tenereef in English and tene-RIF-ay in Spanish. Just like Venice in English, Venezia in Italian, Vienna in English, Wien in German or Paris and Paris pronounced differently in E and F, and so on. Don't really see the problem.
The problem arises when a person's surname is mispronounced by changing the first letter ("Rollande" instead of "Hollande") or by changing a person's gender ("Françoise" instead of "François").
Pretty serious problem, don't you think?
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 13:33
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam
Tom in London wrote:
The problem arises when a person's surname is mispronounced by changing the first letter ("Rollande" instead of "Hollande") or by changing a person's gender ("Françoise" instead of "François").
Pretty serious problem, don't you think?
Tell me about it. "Schnell" sounds German but is the surname of my American husband whose ancestors probably arrived here with the Mayflower. For whatever reason, people will always pronounce this name properly when they deal with my husband, but feel compelled to add some fancy adornments in terms of pronunciation when they speak to me, probably because of my accent. "Sknell", "Shunnel" and such. My previous surname was Dutch, BTW. The Germans never pronounced it correctly and made it sound like Russian or Polish. Only Americans got it right automatically. Should have kept that surname...
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Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:33
Hebrew to English
| Out of curiosity....... | May 6, 2012 |
Nicole Schnell wrote:
Tom in London wrote:
The problem arises when a person's surname is mispronounced by changing the first letter ("Rollande" instead of "Hollande") or by changing a person's gender ("Françoise" instead of "François").
Pretty serious problem, don't you think?
Tell me about it. "Schnell" sounds German but is the surname of my American husband whose ancestors probably arrived here with the Mayflower. For whatever reason, people will always pronounce this name properly when they deal with my husband, but feel compelled to add some fancy adornments in terms of pronunciation when they speak to me, probably because of my accent. "Sknell", "Shunnel" and such. My previous surname was Dutch, BTW. The Germans never pronounced it correctly and made it sound like Russian or Polish. Only Americans got it right automatically. Should have kept that surname...
What was it?
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 13:33
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam
Ty Kendall wrote:
What was it?
Susieck.
Addendum:
To be pronounced "Suseek", most definitely not "Sus-jek"
[Edited at 2012-05-06 19:30 GMT]
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:33
Hebrew to English
| Murdering pronunciation | May 6, 2012 |
Whilst my last name is completely English (Kendall), my first name (the TWO-syllable TYRREL) always caused a stir and seemed to seriously disagree with the English tongue, despite the fact it has a long history in the English language and is too essentially English (albeit with possible Norman/Nordic/Teutonic origins - but then so do the English in part).
When I was growing up, I heard every possible conceivable pronunciation of my name, except for the right one. Hence why I eventu... See more Whilst my last name is completely English (Kendall), my first name (the TWO-syllable TYRREL) always caused a stir and seemed to seriously disagree with the English tongue, despite the fact it has a long history in the English language and is too essentially English (albeit with possible Norman/Nordic/Teutonic origins - but then so do the English in part).
When I was growing up, I heard every possible conceivable pronunciation of my name, except for the right one. Hence why I eventually gave up and just went with "Ty" (which is what my parents always called me anyway)...although this has its downside too - I have Welsh people telling me my name means "house" in Welsh and Polish people telling me my name means "you" in Polish.
In Hebrew, it means "cellular" (תָּאִי)....I digress. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:33
Hebrew to English
| Seeing as Hollande has just won..... | May 6, 2012 |
Prepare yourselves for many more mentions of Madame Françoise Hollande.
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| Last night's BBC news | May 7, 2012 |
Tom, you'll be relieved to hear that on yesterday's BBC late night news, the newsreader (not Mr Marr) pronounced François Hollande more or less correctly (no Françoise, no Rollande), so perhaps the Beeb has been reading this thread and has decided to get its act together.
David, it's not that odd British pronunciations of foreign names and places is a *problem" - it's just that some of us are naturally interested in the use of language and its vagaries, that's all. It doesn't keep me up ... See more Tom, you'll be relieved to hear that on yesterday's BBC late night news, the newsreader (not Mr Marr) pronounced François Hollande more or less correctly (no Françoise, no Rollande), so perhaps the Beeb has been reading this thread and has decided to get its act together.
David, it's not that odd British pronunciations of foreign names and places is a *problem" - it's just that some of us are naturally interested in the use of language and its vagaries, that's all. It doesn't keep me up at night ...
J
P.S. I've even heard another Spanish island much loved by the British pronounced more than oddly - Ibiza - as "One Beezer". Fret, fret ...
[Edited at 2012-05-07 09:41 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:33
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Jenny Forbes wrote:
Tom, you'll be relieved to hear that on yesterday's BBC late night news, the newsreader (not Mr Marr) pronounced François Hollande more or less correctly (no Françoise, no Rollande), so perhaps the Beeb has been reading this thread and has decided to get its act together.
Yes, Jenny, yesterday I emailed the BBC Pronunciation Unit (I found an email address) with a link to this thread, and in the course of the day there was a noticeable improvement. Hopefully I won't need to spend the next 5 years biting my nails.
"I be there" is a well-known holiday destination for Brits.
[Edited at 2012-05-07 09:51 GMT]
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:33
Hebrew to English
| Let's hope... | May 7, 2012 |
That the Greek Golden Dawn (Neo-Nazi) party don't get even more popular then, as I'd like to see the Beeb get their tongue around Nikolaos Michaloliakos.
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