Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Dutch term or phrase:
Dr. Ir.
English translation:
Dr. M.Sc. Engineering
Added to glossary by
Alexander Taguiltsev
Dec 24, 2008 17:51
15 yrs ago
37 viewers *
Dutch term
Dr. Ir.
Non-PRO
Dutch to English
Bus/Financial
Business/Commerce (general)
Please, help me to clear up another abbriviation Prof. Dr. Ir. W.J. van Blommesteinmeer
Prof = professor
Dr. = doktor of science?
Ir.= engineer?
Prof = professor
Dr. = doktor of science?
Ir.= engineer?
Proposed translations
(English)
4 -1 | Dr. M.Sc. Engineering | Textpertise |
5 | Dr. | Toiny Van der Putte-Rademakers |
4 -1 | Dr. W.J. van Blommesteinmeer, M.Sc. Engineering; PhD. | LouisV (X) |
Proposed translations
-1
3 mins
Selected
Dr. M.Sc. Engineering
Ir. = Ingenieur. Roughly equivalent to M.Sc. Engineering. Awarded to graduates of a Technische Hoogeschool (Eindhoven, Delft or Enschede Universities of Technology).
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Note added at 1 hr (2008-12-24 19:37:49 GMT)
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My husband is an Ir. from the TH Eindhoven. Nobody outside NL understands Ir. It is impractical to constantly explain it so we use M.Sc. Electrical Engineering unless the Dutch connection is significant. See my note added above. If the Dutch connection is significant in a particular context, then we use Ir. Elektrotechniek TH Eindhoven (equivalent M.Sc. Electrical Engineering) but that is really rather a mouthful.
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Note added at 16 hrs (2008-12-25 10:37:20 GMT)
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The main thing to keep in mind if translating into Russian is that Ir. is an academic degree at university level and not a diploma issued by a vocational school or polytechnic. I do not know whether this distinction exists in the Russian Federation but if it does, you need to select whichever equivalent approximates the university level of engineering education.
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Note added at 1 day1 hr (2008-12-25 19:08:59 GMT)
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The following extract clearly shows that the Ir. title is NOT equivalent to Dr. but is **equivalent** to the internationally recognised term "Master", i.e. an Ir. is entitled to call him/herself Master. This is not an approximation (Cf). It is an equivalency.
Degrees and Titles
The doctorate is the highest degree awarded, with only one degree preceding this, the doctoraal. Graduates of doctoraal programmes may use the title **ingenieur (ir)**, for engineers, meester (mr), for those studying law, or doctorandus (drs), for all other courses. Graduates can also use the internationally recognised term, **'Master'**. University titles are legally protected in the Netherlands, conferred only by recognized institutions that meet the correct standards. ***The nearest equivalent to a doctoraal degree are the master's degree in Britain, the Diplom in Germany, and the Maîtrise/DEA in France.***
Most academic careers end with the doctoraal, but there are many opportunities for further study, including post-doctoraal training that leads to the doctorate, the highest academic degree in the Netherlands. Candidates conduct independent research and report the results in a dissertation, which must be publicly defended. If successful, they may use the title doctor (comparable to a British PhD). For foreign students with a degree equivalent to a doctoraal, universities offer the possibility of obtaining the doctor's degree immediately.
http://www.studyoverseas.com/europe/euroed/nuffic2.htm
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Note added at 1 hr (2008-12-24 19:37:49 GMT)
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My husband is an Ir. from the TH Eindhoven. Nobody outside NL understands Ir. It is impractical to constantly explain it so we use M.Sc. Electrical Engineering unless the Dutch connection is significant. See my note added above. If the Dutch connection is significant in a particular context, then we use Ir. Elektrotechniek TH Eindhoven (equivalent M.Sc. Electrical Engineering) but that is really rather a mouthful.
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Note added at 16 hrs (2008-12-25 10:37:20 GMT)
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The main thing to keep in mind if translating into Russian is that Ir. is an academic degree at university level and not a diploma issued by a vocational school or polytechnic. I do not know whether this distinction exists in the Russian Federation but if it does, you need to select whichever equivalent approximates the university level of engineering education.
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Note added at 1 day1 hr (2008-12-25 19:08:59 GMT)
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The following extract clearly shows that the Ir. title is NOT equivalent to Dr. but is **equivalent** to the internationally recognised term "Master", i.e. an Ir. is entitled to call him/herself Master. This is not an approximation (Cf). It is an equivalency.
Degrees and Titles
The doctorate is the highest degree awarded, with only one degree preceding this, the doctoraal. Graduates of doctoraal programmes may use the title **ingenieur (ir)**, for engineers, meester (mr), for those studying law, or doctorandus (drs), for all other courses. Graduates can also use the internationally recognised term, **'Master'**. University titles are legally protected in the Netherlands, conferred only by recognized institutions that meet the correct standards. ***The nearest equivalent to a doctoraal degree are the master's degree in Britain, the Diplom in Germany, and the Maîtrise/DEA in France.***
Most academic careers end with the doctoraal, but there are many opportunities for further study, including post-doctoraal training that leads to the doctorate, the highest academic degree in the Netherlands. Candidates conduct independent research and report the results in a dissertation, which must be publicly defended. If successful, they may use the title doctor (comparable to a British PhD). For foreign students with a degree equivalent to a doctoraal, universities offer the possibility of obtaining the doctor's degree immediately.
http://www.studyoverseas.com/europe/euroed/nuffic2.htm
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Lianne van de Ven
7 mins
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Thanks, Lianne. Happy Holidays!
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disagree |
jarry (X)
: It is precisely because nobody knows what Ir. means and because it is a Dutch degree that it is absolutely essential to explain that it is comparable (cf.) to a Masters in the Anglo-Saxon world. There is no explaining to do, just a footnote does the job.
1 hr
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M.Sc. Engineering would be the translation. Whether inserted as a footnote or in brackets after Ir. is up to the translator. Please see all additional notes added to my answer. Happy Holidays!
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neutral |
sindy cremer
: With Jarry: Cf. http://www.tudelft.nl/live/pagina.jsp?id=8651fa87-b514-4753-... :"Dutch titles can not simply be translated into their English equivalents. In many cases the university will need to officially translate the title."
5 hrs
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See my new response to Jarry. M.Sc. Engineering probably closest translated rendition, however you deal with it in the text. Please also see all added notes to my answer re equivalency vs comparability to Masters degree. Happy Holidays!
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disagree |
Toiny Van der Putte-Rademakers
: A Dr.. Ir. has a Master's Degree in ... SC , AND his/her PhD. In English: Prof. Dr., since it is, in general, impossible to become a "professor" for a person wihtout a PhD.
23 hrs
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Dr. Ir. Means he has two degrees. One Ph.D. in unknown subject maybe engineering, maybe not, and Masters in Engineering. The Dr. does not comprise the Ir. Therefore only Prof. Dr. is wrong. Pls see additional notes to my answer. Happy Holidays!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "In spite of that Textpertise has two "disagrees" and that it was difficult to follow the branchy discussions, I abandon myself to the idea that he is not far from the truth. Thanks to all, and have happy Christmass! "
1 day 6 mins
Dr.
A Dr. Ir. has a Master's Degree in ... SC , AND his/her PhD. In English: Prof. Dr., since it is, in general, impossible to become a "professor" for a person without a PhD.
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Textpertise
: Dr. Ir. Means he has two degrees. One Ph.D. in unknown subject maybe engineering, maybe not, and Masters in Engineering. The Dr. does not comprise the Ir. Therefore only Prof. Dr. is wrong. I know ca. 20 people who have studied for and obtained 2 PhDs.
11 mins
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After a master's degree in a subject, students may continue their education, and obtain a doctor's titel, in the same subject. In theory it is possible to become a Doctor in a different subject, but then the title would be an honorary doctorate.
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agree |
Neil Cross
: "Dr. Ir." = Dr; "Prof. Dr. Ir." = Prof. (but this is the name of a reservoir in Surinam - see discussion entries).
2 days 3 hrs
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-1
1 day 12 hrs
Dr. W.J. van Blommesteinmeer, M.Sc. Engineering; PhD.
I am not sure about whether Ir. would automatically equate to a Master's degree rather than a bachelor's degree. It would probably depend on the course followed (long or short respectively).
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
jarry (X)
: The protected title of Ir. is obtained after a university course lasting four years and is comparable to a Masters in the Anglo-Saxon world. The title Ing. would be comparable (but not equivalent) to a Bachelor's degree in the English-speaking world.
3 hrs
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You are right jarry, a master's (M.Sc.) it is!
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disagree |
Textpertise
: Why the extra PhD at the end? and if giving the whole name in your answer and not just Dr. Ir. that has been asked, why have you omitted the Professor? Re Jarry's comment Ing. not same as Ir. Ir. is full University award; Ing. vocational college for less.
1 day 14 hrs
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Discussion
Hij doelt daarmee op het prof. dr. ir. W. J. van Blommesteinmeer, zoals de naam officieel luidt, maar dat door Surinamers
zelf Brokopondo- of Afobakameer wordt genoemd.